Ben Dunnill: The PIVODIO Interview

With more than 50M views on TikTok alone, Ben Dunnill is a seasoned musician who embarked on his professional music journey at the tender age of 13. Over the span of a decade, he honed his craft in the realm of Piano Bars, diligently refining his skills to become one of Vancouver’s most sought-after entertainers. Currently, Ben stands at the precipice of a new and exciting chapter in his career as he readies himself for the release of his debut EP. Check out Ben’s full profile on his PIVODIO page.

You basically became a professional musician at the age of thirteen. Tell us about that time in your life where you were making that big jump.

I did a singing competition around that time. I was far from being a musician at that point, but I ended up winning (even though I don’t think I deserved to). From there, I started getting opportunities to play festivals and things like that.

As word of mouth spread, I got hired to play private parties. Sort of like “oh come check out this thirteen year old playing jazz!” As I got my foot in the door with those opportunities, I was hired at a piano bar called Bin 101 in White Rock, and I started playing there weekly doing four hours a night. So around the age of 13-14, I was still in high school and staying up late at night playing in this piano bar.

Within a year, they gave me a residency position. So from 14-18, I was there three nights a week, four hours a night. Just grinding. So the word of mouth kept spreading. So I guess that’s how I turned professional: word of mouth and getting lucky with opportunities.

There always seems to be some amount of luck when it comes to becoming a music professional, but you always need that talent. So when you started making a living off your music, were you nervous about that or were you stoked to be at that point? How business savvy were you back then?

Well I wish what I learned at that time was “oh I’m making money off this, I should really learn how to save.”

Ha! But how can you tell a teenager about something like that?

Exactly. So right from the get go I knew I wanted music to be my job. Both my parents have worked as musicians, my siblings are musicians as well; so I always knew that’s what I wanted to do.

That being said, I didn’t become business savvy until later. At the time I was young and just thought it was a sweet gig to buy my first car; I didn’t think about this as a job that I needed to be smart about. Now, I have a good grasp of all the different avenues of how to use music to make an income whether it’s performing, streaming, selling sheet music, getting brand deals, teaching; there’s a lot more that you can do than just performing. But I didn’t know that until after high school.

That’s probably true for a lot of up-and-coming musicians. They think performing is the main way to make an income. What are the common choke points where you see artists fall away? Is there a hurdle that you see that’s very common where they stumble?

I think a common pattern I see with musicians is that as an artist, you are very proud of what you do. And sometimes trying to navigate the artist side of things with the modern world can be tricky. For myself initially, I thought “I’m a real musician, I don’t need to be on social media, the music will speak for itself.” That’s not a bad thing, to push yourself as an artist, but what I realized is that I do need to be doing these things, to be on social media.

It’s been two years since I’ve been doing TikTok and such, and the growth has been insane. And now I think “what if I did it sooner?” I needed someone to tell me that you can be a musician, a respected artist, but you can also spread yourself out to more people through social media. If I had someone to tell me that, I can only imagine where I would actually be now.

So be a part of the modern world, it’s there to help you. As a musician today, you can put something out and share it with a million people in a day. Obviously it takes time and luck, but you don’t have to be driving around in a tiny bus like they did in the 70s to make a living. The resources are out there now.

A lot of musicians need to hear that. The skill of self-promotion is so important today. So today, do you mainly find your audience through social media?

Discounting my local audience in the south of Vancouver, I’d say primarily through TikTok, honestly. Throwing my interpretations of songs out there and garnering the attention of a group that’s interested in what I’m doing. Targeting them and redirecting them to more of my stuff.

For example, I’ve started doing videos where I do rap music as jazz. Eventually that series got big enough that I thought I should do an album of this, so I put out an EP called “Jazz Rap.” The response has been incredible. If you put something out there, as it starts to build, you’ll see an audience that respects that. Even if I only had one person in my small town who likes what I do, how many small towns are there in the world? How do you get to them? Through social media.

More and more, I’ve been able to hone in on what audiences appreciate what I do, and crafting my content around that.

At this point, you seem like an expert at social media. How much time goes into all your channels? What’s the best bang for your buck?

If I have a 2-minute video, I’ll ask myself “what am I looking to build right now?” Let’s say it’s my YouTube channel. So I’ll put a short version of it on Instagram and TikTok and say “for the full video, here’s a link to it on my YouTube.”

I’ve found that TikTok is generally the best for getting big numbers quickly. So these days, say I put out one or two videos a week; I’ll try to get 90% of that footage done in the first week of the month so I don’t have to think about it. I have a bit of a special scenario where I’m still playing at a piano bar, so I can get all the content there and spend the night editing it, or spend time promoting it.

Same with Spotify. I put out a version of “God’s Plan” by Drake which was my most successful streaming song, and I made a twenty second video for TikTok or Instagram and put a link to my Spotify.

Do you think doing all this is fun, or is it a necessary evil?

That’s a really good question. It’s probably a bit of both. It depends on how I craft a video. For example, if I put all of my musicianship and ideas into something I put on social media, I don’t see it as a waste. I’m holding myself accountable to do the work. But if I just put up my phone and say “hey everyone come check out my song,” for 30 days, I can see how that gets exhausting.

So what I always try to do with every video I put out is express some sort of musicianship in it, be that a tasty jazz chord or a vocal run or something. That way, I’m staying true to myself as a musician.

Right. Musicians have to be multifaceted today. Especially in jazz, students can often only focus on the music and nothing else about the business. So being a good musician is table stakes. What’s the next skill you need to really make it?

I think you need to have the live experience. More specifically, it’s practicing at a level that’s intense enough that you don’t have to be 100% conscious of what you do. You want to train so hard that your unconscious brain takes care of the singing or the playing, so your conscious brain focuses on the entertainment.

I was really fortunate as I was developing, I had a place where I could practice live. It’s easy for someone to perfect a piece in their room. But when they go out to perform, there are all these external factors that they’re not thinking about when they’re practicing. So being able to train yourself that every time you practice, you’re doing it at a level that’s intense enough that it feels like people or watching. I think that’s the biggest hurdle.

When you’re live, especially in jazz which is improvisational music, if you make a mistake you don’t want it to stop and say you have to try again. I want the control so that if I make a mistake, I can turn it into a positive. “Oh I went there by mistake, let’s see where I can go from there.” So if I can do that in front of an audience, then the comfort increases, which is what I think you should have as a professional musician.

Quick hits for you: what song brings you back to your childhood?

“Where is Love?” from Oliver! I got my start doing musical theater, and that was an audition song I did when I was nine.

Most romantic song in the world?

“Unforgettable” by Nat King Cole.

What song can you listen to a thousand times and never get sick of?

“Georgia on My Mind” by Ray Charles.

What song brings you back to a very important moment in your life?

“Late for the Sky” by Jackson Browne. I first heard it during my first heartbreak and really feeling emotions for the first time. A few months later, I saw Jackson Brown live in concert, and he performed it last. And it just came back again. So everytime I’m driving around and hearing that song, I feel all those emotions again.

For more of Ben Dunnill, check out his Instagram (@bendunnill) and connect with him on PIVODIO for advice on jazz piano and vocals.

About the Author:

Robert Woo has been in marketing for 15+ years, creating content for tech startups in various industries. He’s also written and performed comedy for decades, with stints at Nickelodeon, NBC, HBO, and more. While he is probably the least musically inclined of the PIVODIO team, he is excited to be part of this note-worthy (pun) company. He also takes a multivitamin every day.